Back in the day, Shakespeare plays were only played by men. But in 2019, director Phyllida Lloyd did an acclaimed trilogy of productions that originated at London’s Donmar Warehouse. She set Julius Caesar, Henry IV, and The Tempest in a women’s prison, with inspiration from a collaboration between actors, prisoners, and the Production Team in partnership with the theater company Clean Break and the York St. John University Prison Partnership Project. 

Flash forward to Houston today, and now Cone Man Running Productions and Boiling Point Players are joining forces to recreate this reimagining of Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar—set not in ancient Rome, but behind the bars of Rome Correctional Facility, a women’s maximum-security prison where power is currency and betrayal is a daily threat. This production will run at the Cone Man Running space in Spring Street Galleries from May 30 through June 14. Broadway World writer Brett Cullum sat down with director Katherine Rinaldi to talk about this Orange is the New Black approach to the Bard.  

So what made you want to do this production? This all-female prison version of Julius Caesar.

I've worked with Boiling Point players on their all-female Shakespeare's throughout the years. And they approached me last year. So I've been working on this for almost a year. They asked me if I'd be interested in doing Julius Caesar. They didn't really have a strong concept at the time, and I was like, so long as we can make sure we go 100% of the way and not just kind of go, “Hey? We're doing Shakespeare!” I wanted to make it so that the women were all of the characters rather than women cross-dressing. I felt it was really important for this story with these power struggles and these really human experiences. I wanted to be able to put that within a female space and offer a female light. Then I thought about putting it in prison. Just where these people do awful things. And I wanted to have a space where the audience wouldn't just be like, oh, but that's women's stuff!

Well, it's interesting because when I think about Julius Caesar, I do think of it as a very male-heavy play. And actually, I just recently saw 4th Wall's version of Hamlet and realized there's only like 2 or 3 women in Hamlet. Shakespeare is very male.

Yeah, and it makes sense when he was writing, right? Because the majority of the people who were allowed legally to be on stage were men whether it was a female character or not, and so, like even Julius Caesar, I think there's 2 women in the entire show, as far as the way it's written, and they each have only 2 scenes.

Well, is there a challenge in approaching Julius Caesar and saying, “Hey, we're gonna flip the gender!” Obviously, it has so many male tropes. 

So like, there's not only a challenge of making it with women, it is also making sure that our pronouns make sense. Also, making sure that the way things are delivered is not, “I am doing Shakespeare right now!” It's more, “Hey, let's find the core of this. What are you talking about? What is your character dealing with right now, because in the core, even though it's written for men, the characters are dealing with human things that men and women, and non-binary individuals all deal with. 

Well, let me ask this as a concept, you're setting it in a prison. Is this a situation where, like Marat Sade, the prisoners are putting on the play, or are you just playing it like this is happening in the prison?

It is fully in the prison. It's the chaos of a prison being overthrown and the prisoner's role. So it's a little bit like a Lord of the Flies sort of thing where the inmates are in charge. So, rather than having it be like prisoners putting on a show, we're doing Shakespeare separately. It's the world of Julius Caesar is fully within this prison.

 I'm looking at your cast list, and it's long! How many people are in this?  

So we have a total of 13 people. It's a small space, and it's a lot of really powerful actors. I'm blown away every time we're in rehearsal with all of these women. Just the amount of skill, but also the ideas and willingness to play that they bring. They're all very excited to be working on something with a lot of women, because normally, we don't get to work with this many women at one time. Normally, there's like one or two roles, and you're working with one. And then it's mainly men, even within modern theater.

I know it's. It's a really strange dichotomy that's existed for a long time. It's a male space, but it's an art, and it should be more fluid than that, and we should have more of these voices out there. And it's cool to see this. I have to say that when I got the notice that you were doing this, I immediately thought, “Yes, I want to talk about this, because this is really interesting, because I love the idea of flipping it on its head and making a traditionally male environment female, but also giving it that sense of danger, because Julius Caesar is about tyranny and murder by a mob, and maybe making the wrong moves politically, and all of that. So a woman's prison? Yeah, that makes total sense. What do you think the show says to today? The original UK all-female cast performed in 2019, and we are in a new post-pandemic era. 

Yeah, we are in a completely different era. Now. I would say that this production, without hammering it over the head, deals with a lot of isolation by having it in a prison where these people are not within normal society. It's that isolation we all experienced in 2020 and 2021, where you're not able to be around a lot of people. And you're having to figure out how to interact with people again, once you're out. And so, like setting it within the prison where there's isolation, not only from normal society. But also, you have your little tribes. You’re saying, “Hey, we're over here, and we don't like that, even though we're all in the same space.” Julius Caesar is such an interesting play, because I feel like you could look to any point within history, either today or 60 years ago or 200 years ago, and you would find examples of power, imbalance, and people rising up to try to shift that power imbalance, and maybe it's not always perfect, but it does cause change.

You told me that you are somewhat new to directing, but you are not new to the stage? 

I've been acting in Houston since graduating in 2010. So basically, I jump at any chance whenever someone allows me to get on stage. It's a different experience being on the directing side versus the acting side. But I feel like having a background in acting allows me to hopefully be a better director in many ways, because I know how I want to be treated as an actor in a room. And so hopefully, that's something I'm able to provide for my actors within this space.

It's so hard with Shakespeare, because Shakespeare to me is a little bit more of a challenge. Because the lines are different, and you are dealing with iambic pentameter.

Definitely! I was able to study Shakespearean verse with Philip Lehl over several years, so Shakespeare is no stranger. We were actually very fortunate to build in for the first two weeks, just table work. We were not only reading through the script, but also breaking down and being like, “Hey, what are we saying here? And how does it apply to the setting, and also the fact that we're women? 

Yeah, no, that's so exciting. Okay, so I know a little bit about Cone Man Running. But can you tell me a little bit more about them and Boiling Point Players, and how you two came together to make this?

Yeah, so Cone Man Running Productions. They focus on new works, regional and world premieres. They're the ones who have the space in Spring Street Studios. We have worked with them off and on for many years. Boiling Point Players actually helps to manage their space because Harris County District Court Judge Christine Weems is everywhere all the time. Boiling Point Players assist in helping to make sure that the facilities run correctly. And so in exchange, Boiling Point Players gets to do stuff whenever they would like, and their mission and their goal is to put women on stage in meaningful ways. Women would always run into each other at auditions. They got together and asked, “Why don't we just start a company where it's focusing on women getting our stories on stage, but also like just getting women on stage together, so that we can actually collaborate?”

There is a lot of that happening now, though I think that we've really come around on that issue, and I just have to say, “Hats off to Boiling Point” for taking that on and giving us this new experience. This is such an intriguing idea. So, when do you run again? 

We'll open on May 30th, and we'll run through June 14th. So we do encourage people to once tickets go on sale to reserve your tickets. I don't think they're too expensive. We offer a lot of discounts for teachers, for students, for groups, and for theater artists. So there are a lot of options.

 I was looking at the press release, and it says $20 for a regular ticket and $15 for students, senior teachers, veterans, theater industry, group pricing, and all of that. Come on, that's nothing. When I look at concert tickets today, how much would it cost me to go see a band or buy tickets anywhere in the theater district? $20 only covers the parking! 

Yes, and you're and you're supporting two small local groups that are hoping to continue to produce small, meaningful productions. 

It seems that everyone is doing Shakespeare right now. I think there are three separate productions right now. Zoom Shakespeare and another group just launched 12th Night! Hamlet is wrapping up at the 4th Wall. What do you think Shakespeare is saying to everybody currently, that there is this revival, especially in Houston? 

At the core of what he writes are universal truths about people. That, mixed with the fact that they're past royalties, so they are affordable for everyone to be able to produce. That is very helpful. But yeah, I think it's just you can look at Hamlet. You could look at 12th Night, you could look at Caesar, or even like Midsummer Night's Dream - the really light one with fairies, they all have commonplace things that talk to the human condition, and talk to things that people struggle with internally or externally.

I think it's though it's it's hard to get actors that are so game to play with him, because of the language. It's a tough thing to really conquer sometimes.

It's really important to also have a good concept for what you're doing. I often find myself in rehearsal being like, “I know it's beautiful language, and it's really flowery. But let's ignore that. What are you saying right now?” Because if you just go with like the floweriness of we're talking about horses, or rainbows, or whatever. That's fine. But no one's gonna understand what you're saying. So it's also approaching Shakespeare in a way where it's not precious in order to find that core about what people are talking about and what they're dealing with. There's just the way that Shakespeare writes. It's so important to pay attention to the way that he writes, because it does actually set the pacing. 

I am so excited to see all 13 of your actors take on an all-female production of Julius Caesar. Let's see what they can do with a women's prison setting. I think that's amazing. It'll be really exciting to see that. I've never seen this done on stage live. I've seen video outtakes from that original production at The Donmar Warehouse, but I've never seen it in person, so it'll be exciting for Houston audiences to actually get a chance to see it.

And again. Cone Man Running and Boiling Point Players in the Spring Street galleries upstairs, just follow the cones. May 30 through June 14, and Katherine Rinaldi, thank you so much for sitting down and talking to me about this one.